Moonstone Forums

"So, as I was saying, a critique from an artist is no more valid than one from a viewer, but one from an art historian might carry more insight."

"It is when you say things like this I wonder if you really want people like me to participate in your forum."

I'm not sure I understand your statement. It's not my forum.
In this forum you are afforded an opportunity to say what you feel...and others are given the same opportunity to say what they feel regarding your comments.

I have no desire to see you stop posting here. However, that doesn't mean that I am in agreement with what you say.  For example:
"For what it is worth, though, I can almost guarantee any artist that they will get more honest appraisals of their work in this kind of environment than they do at said conventions."

How can you "almost guarantee" more honest appraisals in any situation. It's just not logical. The variables are uncontrollable.  
People can advance personal or hidden agendas anonymously.
I cannot say others feel this way, but I tend to appreciate opinions a little more when they are said by people who don't hide their identity. (I don't necessarily agree with the opinions, but I respect the person for
it.) In every forum, I use my name.

When you say "people like me"...I have no idea what that means. Do you mean people from Australia living in the US? Do you mean parents of children?  Do you mean female comic readers?

When I spoke of art historians, I was thinking of what may be considered legitimate art history whether it be Arshile Gorky or Rembrandt.  It's only in recent years that comic art has been taken seriously and I think that may be for the wrong reasons. When I was a guest of Sy Barry's at a party, Jerry Robinson made a quick sketch of Batman for me. There I learned that the original art to his cover featuring the first appearance of The Joker sold for half a million dollars. That makes people take comic art seriously.

There is craftmanship that goes into storytelling and art. Draftsmanship may be more measurable than creativity and the buying market is more important to the publisher than the critics...and the critics have been wrong again and again. Van Gogh made less than $30 from his art in his lifetime. Monet was ridiculed for his innovations. But the people who ridiculed him didn't do it anonymously. Their opinions may have been informed and heartfelt, but they didn't stand the test of time.

When you say 'crap' and 'idiot' I am disappointed with your choice of words, but I never got the impression you were "too thick."
I disagreed with you (and a number of others) about Ben Raab who did some impressive work, but that's your opinion and I can't fault that.

Forgive me for saying this, but it is also my right to be candid in my beliefs. To me, there is an important distinction between an opinion and a judgement. If I make a Phantom drawing for my students, family or friends and they like it, I'm happy, but when Lee Falk praised my work, it was more special to me. If Sy Barry points out faults in something I've done, I'm going to listen and try to improve them.
If an anonymous person tells me it's crap, I'm not saying I will disregard it, but it just doesn't carry the same importance to me.

I'm trying to be just as candid and honest as you are.
And I still like respectful comments from thoughtful people ...even when they are in opposition to my feelings.

If my comments offend you, it was not my intention, but you know exactly who offended you.

Now I am confused. Where have I said 'crap' and 'idiot' and criticised Ben Raab?

Pip

Still no #13 for poor ol' Niko. :sad02:

Forgive me Pippi, I mistook your posts for someone else's. Now I recall you're the one who was concerned about what your children are exposed to?

Actually, I applauded that attitude.

I don't recall you taking anonymous cheap shots at anyone.

There are opinions here that differ from mine, but there is no one on this board who I wish would leave.  Still, my feelings about anonymous posts remains the same.

I thought you were mixing me up with somebody else. I have never come near to using words like 'crap' and 'idiot' on this forum.

And my mistake was to think you were part of Moonstone. You talk like you are, and I have seen your columns in Moonstone's Phantom books. Also, I have not read any critical posts of Moonstone from you, so I assumed you were more directly involved than you seem to be (?)

I am anonymous here. That is not a discourtesy to any other member. It is first and foremost a sign of the times. This is the Internet age and most users have screen names. In my particular case there is also an added reason: I do not want some people to know that I am a fairly regular participant in this and other comics sites. It may sound strange, but I have my reasons. I respect others' privacy as well. I do not really care who they are.

I do not want to get a bad name here because I have been taken for somebody else, so let me clarify that I have not yet read No. 13 and can have no opinions about it. I do not think I have ever mentioned Ben Raab in my posts.

I will soon buy No. 13 and I will let my kids read it. I rather liked No. 12, so I am looking forward to the second part. It is No. 15 I am a bit hesitant about...

Pip

I feel your pain Niko, although my copy should be arriving in the mail tomorrow!!:mrgreen:

"And my mistake was to think you were part of Moonstone. You talk like you are, and I have seen your columns in Moonstone's Phantom books. "

I write a column for Moonstone and read much of the material in its rough form. I am listed as a consultant and I have served as a resource for the artists and writers, and I've done similar things for the newspaper strips for a long time. (Often helping find a part of a story or a graphic for an artist.) As a result, I've seen myself in a few Phantom and Mandrake stories....once to the delight of my students, I ended up on the wrong side of the Phantom and got a skull mark on my face. Once, on my birthday, I was a guy with a Phantom shirt washing my car. In Egmont, I had dinner with Edgar Allan Poe and in an Alex Saviuk story for Egmont, I was in the audience at a gathering. I think my name may used in #15.

However, everything I do is unpaid (except for my work on the A&E Phantom Biography).  With a kid in college and one coming up, I'm certainly not well heeled, but I don't make money from the Phantom. I would like to make a difference...even if it's in a small way.

If I found Moonstone's product offensive or not to my liking, I wouldn't be associated with it.

It is true that I like to support Phantom projects. I would like to see the US continue to have a Phantom comic and it's one of only three sources of new Phantom stories.

I also get Frew and Egmont comics sent to me, and I've personally met many Phantom creators. Ulf Granberg has been my house guest, I spoke with Sy Barry two days ago and George Olesen last night.
I have dinner with Jim Shepherd when he comes to the US and keep in touch with him.

I see my role as trying to help rather than criticize.
It's been said in discussion forums that I am totally a yes man who never has anything critical to say. Publisher Joe Gentile and Mike Bullock know otherwise, but I sincerely feel they are on target and trying to present something exciting for fans.

Although I am not troubled by the cover of #15, I understand your concern. It makes me wish it had an alternate cover like #12 did even if just for your sake.  I think the story inside is positive and in keeping with Lee Falk's vision.

That said, I cringe at some of the TV shows on prime time that my daughters like ...including CSI and Criminal Law. Their violence is more graphic and mature, but if it scares them into being careful, it's a good trade off. They both take karate and one is an accomplished martial artist.

I respect your desire to not let others know of your participation in comic sites. Being a public school art teacher, I think my interest in comics as an artist and instructor goes with the territory.
Besides, for me, it may be different.
If someone says, "How can a grown man be interested in a comic?"
I might point out that grown men dedicate their life to poking a ball into a hole with a stick...and worship Tiger Woods for doing it well.

I am also an elected official and recently, I was falsely accused of something in the 30 seconds column of our newspaper. I was named by an anonymous accuser and it was just a lie. I feel it was irresponsible journalism to let someone say lies about me without signing their name.
(They said I predetermined the outcome of an event that I didn't even know about beforehand.)

Sometimes, I yearn for those simpler times when manners were a given and people were unable to advance hidden agendas without signing their name. I have seen no evidence of what I would consider wrongdoing or discourtesy from you.

Edgar Rice Burroughs once wrote "When a grown man follows a little white ball around with the intent of repeatedly whacking it with a stick, this is not a sport, it's a mental disorder."

So getting back to the actual comic...

Mike I would be interested in knowing your views and opinions of what you have written so far (what has been published). Are you happy with the way theyve been excepted etc??

Mke can speak for himself of course, but it's gotta be depressing to study Lee's stories, work hard to put something together that has the publisher's approval, King Features approval, that US fans and critics like and have people on the boards from other countries pan your work.

In his shoes, I would feel unappreciated. (I guess fortunately for me...no one has mentioned my columns...I don't mind if they stay below the radar in this crowd.) From Norway to Australia...people are saying some pretty discouraging things to Mike and Moonstone.

Warning the following contains a spoiler:






Considering that a one out of five rating is the lowest you can get in a review...getting one and a half was pretty insulting for a story that had some character development, a nice plot, some typical Lee Falk devices (like the Phantom being captured and getting away.) He didn't just beat up his adversary...he had to overcome some obstacles. The villain wasn't one dimensional...he had motivation to kill the Phantom, and martial art skills and a drug to tip the scales. The Phantom had to give a sense of bravado through his trials to keep his reputation as being immortal. There was action and excitement in a powerful presentation with the villain emerging more determined after his defeat.

Mike got grief in part one for using tigers...even though Lee used them and the jungle saying "Phantom has the strength of ten tigers" is pretty standard.

Now, he's taking flack for The Phantom's wisecracks (like early Lee Falk stories), and getting busted on for the second part for it appearing different than issue #12. Even Carlos who did some powerful, dynamic panels wasn't appreciated. Personally, I wish Carlos would have stayed on for more stories (but I do like what I've seen from the next artist.) But sadly, I get the feeling he could be Rembrandt or Sy Barry and he wouldn't catch a break from the small handful of people who post on the boards.

I know US fans who are buying 7 copies of the issue to share excitedly with their friends. Obviously, what Moonstone is doing is different from Egmont and the daily strips, but I like it and really hope it continues with Mike writing stories.

Your question "Are you happy with the way theyve been excepted etc??" is puzzling. Do you expect him to say...he enjoys having his work trashed?  (By the way...the word is 'accepted' and 'they’ve’ should have a hyphen)  

Well, both Monet and Van Gogh kept painting despite having their worked trashed and in hindsight, the art world is glad they did.  I sincerely hope Mike does the same, because there are many of us who sincerely enjoy his stories, and he has some really nice stuff coming up.